Leading Travel Publishers take your questions

What a great Webinar this was! We had people signing-in to listen from Mexico, Brazil, UK, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Australia, USA, Indonesia, Vietnam. Truly global. Questions from listeners during our first Webinar had been in short supply but this time I could hardly keep up, it was brilliant!  Tom Hall from Lonely Planet, Adrian Phillips from Bradt Guides and Toby Sawday from Sawday’s Publishing were all online to discuss how responsibility fits into their operations.  Alan Murphy from Footprint Travel Guides and Dan Linstead from Wanderlust Magazine were also present but unfortunately had sound problems and were unable to talk.  We hope to have them back soon.

More about this Webinar

• Tom Hall talks about Lonely Planet
• Adrian Phillips talks about Bradt guides
• Next Webinar hands the mic to travel publishers

Recycled/FSC paper for guidebooks

To what extent is recycled paper being used for travel guides?

• We use FSC paper on all of our books wherever possible – I am not an expert on this but I have been told it is better for environment than using recycled.  It is usually possible but stock sourcing options means that occasionally we can’t get the right grade for colour sections. We still use managed sources in these instances but not FSC. Tom Hall (LP)
• That has been the worst problem with trying to go green on paper… same in Nepal…we just cannot get the grades required, so we restrict it to just visiting cards and small posters. Raj Gyawali (Social Treks)
• Thomas Cook also introducing FSC across guidebook series. Kelly Pipes (Sandwagon)
• There’s still a staggering lack of recognition of the FSC label, and it’s largely understood that it makes little difference to buying decisions. Toby Sawday (Sawday Publishing)
• I think the issue of the price of books is something that needs addressing – ethically sourced paper etc. is more expensive. Will readers stomach a price rise to accommodate those sorts of steps? Adrian Phillips (Bradt Guides)
• So, those of us who do it, do so because it’s just the right thing to do. Toby Sawday (Sawday Publishing)
• This is one key thing that needs to be better debated – if there’s little evidence that people make buying decisions based on this kind of thing alone. So you do it because it’s the right thing, yes. Tom Hall (LP)
• There are also questions about the FSC label. Ron Mader (Planeta)
• Completely agree Ron .pdf and online versions are an effective, timely and green way to distribute guides or destination books.  We at green visions are considering publishing our own online responsible guidebooks. we believe the traveler will eventually want to hear from local organizations what responsible travel in the country or destination really means or entails. Thierry Joubert (Green Visions)
• I think that’s a great, and timely, angle Thierry. Noah Wheelock (travelbugger)
• Thierry… great point… Raj Gyawali (Social Treks)
• Agree Thierry, being responsible in one place varies from another. Claire Prest (Grass Routes Journeys)
• Do small local companies like ourselves have a chance? Thierry Joubert (Green Visions)
• Thierry, forming relationships with the established publishers may help. Kelly Pipes (Sandwagon)
• Well, building relationships is the answer, but the entry into that important step is very complicated.  The first point of entry is informing Travel writers, but I find that they are mostly busy just updating what they already have! again to the budget constraints maybe affecting this. Raj Gyawali (Social Treks)
• Perhaps someone can offer a digital platform for distribution of responsible local guides e.g. whl.travel, intrepid etc.? Thierry Joubert (Green Visions)
• Great question! Amber Klatt
• Sorry, maybe it has been asked already, but what is FSC? Candice Motran (Oxford Uni)
• FSC is the Forest Stewardship Council. Len Cordiner (whl.travel)
• Thierry, I assume you work with Tim Clancy, author of our Bosnia guide. That’s a very good example of an author who’s utterly devoted to responsible travel – at times even at the risk of running against some pretty powerful forces. Adrian Phillips (Bradt Guides)
• Agree. I’ve worked with Tim. Very inspiring. Kelly Pipes (Sandwagon)
• Yes Adrian, Tim and I are one of the founders of Green Visions. Thierry Joubert (Green Visions)

Toby Sawday shared a link to the Green Publishers Network that he is involved in.

Guidebooks can increase tourism

Is it possible that Lonely Planet exposure will increase traffic to certain destinations, which could potentially therefore increase negative impacts?

• While possible I’d say it is only a contributing factor – cheap air fares, perception of safety and facilities are bigger concerns. In a way I wish books did have that power as there are places that could do with more or less visitors going equipped with the right info! Tom Hall (LP)
• Vanessa, is it possible to identify these un-exposed / potential destinations using a Geographic info systems, then it becomes the prerogative of researchers and tourism authorities to get community participation at the earliest possible time… chk a book: Community destination management in developing countries (Walter Jamieson – 2006). Kshetra Govindasamy (GeoDust)
• thx Kshetra. I still wonder if guide books do have a sometimes unexpected impact in terms of “discovering” a small area of a destination, sometimes before it has been identified as having tourism potential, and without any community participation in decisions has occurred. Vanessa Weigall (Travelcorp)

Local operators using travel forums

Tom, it is interesting to see the success of Thorn Tree forums… however, my experience is that destination based local information seems to be seen as unethical marketing… I have been bumped out of the forum, for just providing information, not marketing myself… local information could be key to RT isn’t it?  When a traveller in the UK for example recommends a guide or a travel service, it seems fine there, but not when the same is done by a destination based expert… then it sounds like marketing… how can we balance this?

• Raj – I think that local expertise and contacts is invaluable. I can’t see any inconsistency. However, forums can be very sensitive to what may be seen as spam. Tom Hall (LP)
• Tom, i agree about that.. I just felt that the sensitiveness level might be lowered to make sure that locals get an opportunity to bring in their expertise, and are encouraged to do so… especially on important opinion forums like thorn Tree. Raj Gyawali (Social Treks)
• Raj, happy to pass on contacts for our community manager if helpful. Tom Hall (LP)

What about Slow Travel?

Go slow… slow travel…. is this something that can transcend the common ‘terminologies’, and something that can be relevant to the everyday, mainstream traveller?

• Absolutely. ‘Slow’ travel is an infinitely more appealing, accessible concept than ‘green’, ‘eco’, ‘ethical’ etc. It has a less worth connotation, and its connection with food provides a bridge to people who wouldn’t otherwise consider green issues. Toby Sawday (Sawday Publishing)
• I cannot emphasise enough the importance of encouraging ’slow travel’. Arlyn Santos

Acknowledging irresponsible tourism

Adrian (Bradt Guides), Tom (Lonely Planet), maybe an irresponsible travel section, using travellers to bring it out, might be an idea?

• Raj, I can confidently state that you won’t find an irresponsible travel section in our guides for the forseeable future. Tom Hall (LP)
• I think that the idea of highlighting irresponsible travel is great — the problem is, as a publisher, avoiding anything libellous. Adrian Phillips (Bradt Guides)
• Tom, i was thinking more on the online guides, instead of print ones. Raj Gyawali (Social Treks)
• I agree with Raj, some way in which travellers could give feedback on irresposable tourism that’s happenign on destinations. Santiago
• If you label irresponsible operators it may discourage people doing anything at all to improve their service towars being more responsible. We should be encouraging operators rather then perhaps putting them down for trying.  Luke Ford (whl.travel)
• Luke I agree totally… thats is a solid point. Raj Gyawali (Social Treks)
• I agree encouraging the good stories should be the overwhelming focus, but without labelling we can also learn what not to do. Shaun Gilchrist (whl.travel)
• I agree with luke. be positive and focus on what we want more of. Thierry Joubert (Green Visions)
• Who should name and shame irresponsible operators? Ron Mader (Planeta)
• Online traveler feedback can take care of irresponsible activities and operators. Thierry Joubert (Green Visions)
• hmm tripadvisor for tour operators. Luke Ford (whl.travel)
• Agreed… but Guidebooks are usually recommending a whole lot of not so “responsible” operations, and the small small ones who might be making their impacts do not get the nescessary exposure.  Somehow, we need to circumvent travel writers for the publishers and get “seen”.  Which becomes problematic when it comes to competing with LP, Bradt, Footprint etc. Raj Gyawali (Social Treks)

(See also ‘Tom Hall talks about Lonely Planet‘)

Guidebook economics

How much do budgets and price issues affect Publishers decisions on taking the publication more green!?

• Price is inevitably an issue – some of our guides are on short runs, and are very expensive to produce as a consequence. However, if we were to stick to a particular margin, we just wouldn’t be able to do books to Rwanda, Sierra Leone et al. Adrian Phillips (Bradt Guides)

Writing for guidebooks

I always wanted to know, how does one write something that will interest the guidebooks in one’s own writing? Because when I travel & write, I wouldn’t write about a dozen different hotels, like a guidebook would. So how does one make their writing actually pertinent?

• Noah, do you mean how do you write for travel guides, or how do you sell a feature, or something else? Tom Hall (LP)
• Tom, more specifically writing for travel guides, though all advice/answers are appreciated! Noah Wheelock (travelbugger)
• Noah, the writing of a guidebook has to be the purpose of the travel – it’s not something you can hash together on the back of a general travel trip. Adrian Phillips (Bradt Guides)
• Noah, start here: http://www.lonelyplanet.com/jobs/work-at-lonely-planet-authors. Tom Hall (LP)
• Adrian, so in applying to a guidebook to write, I probably wouldn’t have ever written that why (why would I inspect a dozen different hotels in the same town, for example). So I would write anecdotaly, which isn’t the way guidebooks work, of course. Noah Wheelock (travelbugger)
• Yes, Noah – the listings sections of guidebooks are unlikely to be things you’ll have written before (beyond panel text at the end of newspaper/magazine articles). Having said that, there’s a lot of full-body text too and so there’s room to indulge your own voice.  Adrian Phillips (Bradt Guides)
• Adrian, very cool. Just always curious how to apply and make it stand out for a guidebook when I would have only had reason to write in my own voice up to this point. But I agree, the best guidebooks are a great mix of information & voice. Noah Wheelock (travelbugger)
• Noah, always feel free to pitch to us if you’re interested in writing guidebooks. We do take on a healthy number of first timers – we often find they have the passion that more seasoned hacks can lose. Adrian Phillips (Bradt Guides)

The effect of the online world on print publishers

How affected is the Publishing world by the hundreds of online local information websites that have come nowadays, and who probably provide more relevant information than a print that was done several years ago?

• Precisely. And it’s a usable, accessible source – as Toby is saying. Amber Klatt
• I think less affected than you’d think, Raj. People value a consistent point of focus when assessing whether they’d like one thing or another. You can’t get that readily from online forums. It’s all about consistency and trustworthiness of voice. Adrian Phillips (Bradt Guides)
• I think that the great advantage of online guides is the capacity to update quite fast and if we could have the travellers involved in a way of updating and expanding the content of these.  Santiago

Small operators and guidebooks

How can “small” operators and operations get into the guidebooks … I know at least from the example in Nepal… that this is tough… Getting in contact with authors, convincing them about your operation is tough… Mostly the authors come in at a particular point and are more and more involved in just making sure that the information is not outdated! I bet that takes a lot of time too.

• Raj, I’d suggest contacting the publisher concerned and arrange for the relevant info to be sent to the author. We always pass such info on – ultimately, however, it’s then up to the individual author to assess whether or not the organisation merits inclusion. Adrian Phillips (Bradt Guides)

Unanswered questions in the chat box (some are addressed in the recording)

1. Don’t we need to move beyond the ‘box sections’ and sustainability lists to tell travellers what they get out of Responsible Tourism in accommodation/trip choices? (See ‘Tom Hall talks about Lonely Planet‘)
2. Adrian (Bradt Guides) how much do you talk to accommodation providers/dmos in places like Sierra Leone about Responsible Tourism given they’re at early stage development?
3. Tom, did you mention that the Lonely Planet online will expand, as the print expands its Responsible Tourism section?
4. Are you seeing a tend to more coverage of slow food / slow travel ideas? (see ‘Adrian Phillips talks about Bradt guides‘)
5. Do you see opportunities in the online space which haven’t been available in the printed space?
   Are writers encouraged to promote sustainable tour operators?
6. Why does Lonely Planet pass on the ‘green index’ when it comes to cities?
7. What about a general Responsible Tourism checklist to help travellers make a decision? Lonely Planet and other publishers can play a big role. (See ‘Tom Hall talks about Lonely Planet‘)
8. How well does Lonely Planet pay its writers? (See ‘Tom Hall talks about Lonely Planet‘)
9. How much research /measurement are publishers doing on traveller needs and wants in this area?
10. How well does Bradt work with online forums, twitter, blogs? Do you have a conversation with locals on the ground?
11. How up to date are the online guides with Bradt… the movement of going green is so fast and the change from green to non-green to green washing is also quite fast

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